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April 09, 2020

The author Tim O'Brien chooses to have Rat Kiley tell the story of Mary Anne. How does that choice change the way we read and understand her story? How might it have changed if it was told from her perspective?

What word choice does Tim O'Brien use to illustrate the expectations of women in the 1960's (think about clothing, behavior, and relationships with men). How does his word choice change our understanding of the story?

How does Tim O'Brien use the character of Mary Anne to challenge the idea of a woman's place in society? How does that choice change our reading of the novel?

Comments

AnonymousApril 15, 2020 at 12:08 PM
Isaiah Lowe
4/15/20
Stokley
p.5

O’Brien uses the Character of Mary Anne to challenge the idea of a woman's place in society by introducing her as a medic and a stereotypical white woman straight out of highschool but he quickly reveals her turn to the dark and foreign jungles of Vietnam to embrace war and ultimately join it as a soldier.
On page 93 the rat talks about how by the end of the first two weeks Mary Anne had already picked up on medical skills and when 4 casualties came in she didn't hesitate to help. The story says, “At times, in fact, she seemed fascinated by it. Not the gore so much, but the adrenaline buzz that went with the job.”(O’Brien 93) this was perhaps the first clue as to where Mary Anne’s mind was going. The stereotypical view of a woman at the time was one who stayed home to cook and take care of children, not one who stuck their hands in a wounded soldier to help stop bleeding at the first sight of it.
Mary Anne’s mentality had completely changed by the end of the story, when she got there she was almost innocent, curious yet innocent, and still full of life. In the next few weeks Marry Anne decides on her own to go out on an ambush with fellow soldiers. Mary Anne wasn’t like your typical woman, she was hungry for adventure and wanted to find her own path deep in the jungles of Vietnam.
Mary Anne set out on a 3 week hiatus after refusing to return home like her fiance had asked. When Mary Anne returns she is only a shell of who she used to be. She sets up a sort of tribal ritual in one of her bunks complete with a severed leopard head, dangling skin, and a pile of bones. Mark Fossie walks up to her to investigate and “At the girl's throat was a necklace of human tongues.”(O'brien 105) Marry Anne had changed in those three weeks away, she had become only a shell of her past self, she now wanted action more than ever, the last thing she wanted was to stay home or on base taking care of fellow soldiers, she wanted to be at the front lines.
Mary Anne challenges the reader’s perspective of a female’s place in society at the time, by introducing Mary Anne as a typical female who only was there to serve and comfort men, the land of vietnam quickly reverses that idea as Mary Anne is intrigued by the land and wants to explore and go on adventures in it. The land of vietnam changes Mary Anne into a soldier and adventurer hungry for action, one who could live off the land, one who will never return to her normal life.
The land of Vietnam was foreign and unknown for many soldiers, Mary Anne was one of the lucky ones who assimilated and adapted to her new lifestyle. The jungles and atmosphere of Vietnam changed the readers view of Mary Anne from a dumb blonde, who was only there to comfort soldiers to a rogue berzerker hungry for action and adventure.

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UnknownApril 17, 2020 at 6:37 AM
Benjamin Pearce

The author uses Marry Ann to challenge our idea of what a woman’s place in society by showing us that she was able to adapt and thrive in her new environment. We see her change from a regular girl to a solider who is braver than the male soldiers. Changing our idea of what a woman should do and be allows us to understand that she will survive and be happy living in the forest. If we assumed that women couldn’t be soldiers and only men had survival instincts, we would have thought that she wouldn’t last a day alone in the forest. Marry Ann shows us that women are just as capable as men and they can fight wars alongside men.
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AnonymousApril 17, 2020 at 9:53 AM
David Lopez

The author chooses to have Rat Kiley tell the story of Mary Anne which isn't exactly the greatest idea because its made clear in the story that '' Rat had a reputation for exaggeration and
overstatement, a compulsion to rev up the facts..(85).'' This changes the way we read the story because we don't know what actually happened and what is being exaggerated for the sake of having interest in the story. It would have definitely changed the story if we got to hear it from Mary Anne's point of view because we would've gotten to see her assimilation into the Vietnamese culture she eventually gets wrapped up in. Rat being the one who tells the story means that not everything he says can be counted as the truth as Tim mentions in the first couple sentences of the story. For example, once the character see Mary Anne fully embracing the Vietnamese, Rat says that "She had crossed to the other side. She was a part of the land. She was wearing her culottes, her pink sweater, and a necklace of human tongues. She was dangerous. She was ready for the kill." This is honestly a huge departure from the Mary Anne from the beginning of the story who was seen as a very friendly person. If we got to see Mary Anne's side of the story we would've gotten to see how she started to embrace the Vietnamese culture that'd shed eventually join. We would've gotten to see how she started to see what was going on around her and maybe helping the Vietnamese. With all that being said the story would've definitely changed if we got to see from Mary Anne's point of view due to Rat being a person who distorts the story.
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AnonymousApril 19, 2020 at 1:24 PM
The character of Mary Anne in the this book was a 17 year old girl that snuck into a military compound that was in Vietnam on a flat crested hill along the outskirts of Tra Bong, she was brought by her boyfriend Mark Fossie and while she was there she learned a lot from the soldier and their jobs. The reason this was so odd is because in society the stereotype for women and what they should be doing is more delicate jobs with hardly any Manual labor, especially in those times when those stereotypes were more like stay at home and more motherly duties. So Tim O’brien really challenged these ideas by making this female character more hands on in men’s work and that made this girl seem so much more extraordinary and have her a special spotlight. In the first couple of moments with her she is revealed to be a young girl in a new world on page 91 it says “What was behind those scary green mountains to the west? Then she'd squint and listen quietly while somebody filled her in. She had a good quick mind. She paid attention.” (O’brien 91).She was full of questions because this is not familiar ground for women and they shouldn't be near that environment. For us as readers we get persuaded into viewing her as a bit foolish but impressed with her courage. Later on in the chapter there is a quote that says “At the end of the second week, when four casualties came in, Mary Anne wasn't afraid to get her hands bloody. At times, in fact, she seemed fascinated by it.” (O’brien 93). Slowly as she gets used to her daily routine she starts to step out of these stereotypes and gets more hands on more gruesome work. The men become impressed because it was almost unheard of for women to do these types of things, it was certainly unheard of for women to sneak into a military base. Lastly as time goes on the men start to see her become into a new someone on page 93 it states “In times of action her face took on a sudden new composure, almost serene, the fuzzy blue eyes narrowing (93) into a tight, intelligent focus. Mark Fossie would grin at this. He was proud, yes, but also amazed. A different person, it seemed, and he wasn't sure what to make of it. “ (O’brien 93). As she took on her new skills and new confidence she started to become more of her own individual and venture on her own. The character of Mary Anne was not only a fictional character in a story but also a symbol for the progressive of challenging women’s expectations, which made reading this novel more than just a story with a girl character but as an inspiration and a loop in stereotypes. She was surrounded by soldiers and soon found a new self that carried herself way different that got her through those days until she ultimately went out on her own and was not seen again.
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UnknownApril 21, 2020 at 11:34 AM
Anatinique Quintana

Tim o’brien uses many interesting word choices that illustrate the expectations of women in the 1960’s. An example of this is “. It was Vietnam, after all, and Mary Anne Bell was an attractive girl. Too wide in the shoulders, maybe, but she had terrific legs, a bubbly personality, a (90) happy smile. The men genuinely liked her. Out on the volleyball court she wore cut-off blue jeans and a black swimsuit top, which the guys appreciated, and in the evenings she liked to dance to music from Rat's portable tape deck”(O’Brien, 90-91). This shows characteristics of her behavior and her clothing. Words such as attractive, terrific and bubbly so O’Brien uses description words to give a deeper understanding of her character. This gives us more of an understanding of what she would be like in real life or if we were in the story. Another example in the story is “she was good for morale. At times she gave off a kind of come-get-me energy, coy and flirtatious, but apparently it never bothered Mark Fossie.” (O’Brien, 91). This quote also gives us a sense of what her personality is towards the other characters in the story.It gives us a deeper understanding of how much she changes in the story as well because first he starts with her being a sweet flirtatious person then she goes through everything in the story and we can see that she is no longer this young lady with a flirtatious personality. Authors use descriptive words that stick with the reader throughout the story which help them understand the story better and the growth each character goes through such as O’Brien did in this story.
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UnknownApril 21, 2020 at 9:12 PM
The word choice that Tim O’ Brian uses to illustrate the expectations of women in the 1960’s is flashy and shallow sounding words. On page 90, the author states how Mark Fozzy and Mary Anne Bell were always “holding hands, always laughing over some private joke.” This shows how people in the 1960’s expected women to laugh at everything the man said and to always be a hopeless romantic, as shown in the part about holding hands.” Another example of an illustration of the expectations of women in the 1960’s is also on page 90, when the character named Rat remarks on how “Mary Anne Bell was an attractive girl. Too wide in the shoulders, maybe, but she had terrific legs, a bubbly personality, a happy smile.” This proves my point by showing how men judged Mary Anne as a woman, a shallow rating based on attractiveness. All this evidence proves my point about the shallow sounding words to illustrate the expectations of women in the 1960’s.
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 7:56 AM
In the text “Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong” Tim O’Brien uses colors to illustrate the expectations of women in the 1960’s. “...white culottes… sexy pink sweater....”. In this portion it shows that the white shoes means she is tied down and restricted like when slaves whore silver chains, the pink sweater shows that girl are not viewed the same as men, he worded it as sexy because it looked good on her, he looked at her figure before seeing her as a person. “...brass type...” shows that they are the subject of the story. In this story Tim O’Brian uses color to represent women of the 1960’s.
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 8:27 AM
The choice to have Rat tell the story of Mary Anne, any thoughts, feelings, or key details that she had, we wouldn’t know about. We’d definitely have a better understanding of what happened to her and what really pushed her to start acting different. “Across the room a dozen candles were burning on the floor near the open window. The place seemed to echo with a weird deep-wilderness sound—tribal music—bamboo flutes and drums and chimes. But what hit you first, Rat said, was the smell. Two kinds of smells. There was a topmost scent of joss sticks and incense, like the fumes of some exotic smoke- house, but beneath the smoke lay a deeper and much more powerful stench. Impossible to describe, Rat said. It paralyzed your lungs. Thick and numbing, like an animal's den, a mix of blood and scorched hair and excrement and the sweet-sour odor of moldering flesh—the stink of the kill.” If this section was told by Mary Anne, it would explain what she was doing and why she was doing it. We’d know why it smells like death and we’d know her current mental state. “At the girl's throat was a necklace of human tongues. Elongated and narrow, like pieces of blackened leather, the tongues were threaded along a length of copper wire, one overlapping the next, the tips curled upward as if caught in a final shrill syllable.” If Mary Anne was telling her own story, we would know a lot more about the tongues hanging around her neck like who they came from and if the people were still alive or not. We’d know what she’s doing and thinking while on an ambush. The story most likely would’ve had a different ending if Mary Anne was telling it. Like where she is, if she’s dead or alive or if she even went out into the mountains. If Mary Anne got to tell her own story, we would have had a better understanding of her weird behaviors and her feelings for the situation she’s in. We’d know what really made her snap or we’d hear a different side to the story.
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 9:27 AM
Ryan Martinez - Question #1

In the short story "Sweetheart of Song Tra Bong" Tim O'Brien chooses Rat to tell the story of Mary Anne which gives us a good idea why he appearance from someone watching her can she her inner changes, and if she was to tell her own story, it would be more difficult to get an idea to how she might appear and how her tone when talking or eyes might appear to someone else. When Rat is describing what Mary Anne looks like when she is with the Green Berets you can tell the change she made, "She was barefoot. She wore her pink sweater and a white blouse
and a simple cotton skirt. For a long while the girl gazed down at Fossie, almost blankly, and in
the candlelight her face had the composure of someone perfectly at peace
with herself. It took a few seconds, Rat said, to appreciate the full
change. In part it was her eyes: utterly flat and indifferent." With Rat telling the story he goes into detail about her appearance and how it changed to a more flat and serious feel and different when she sees Mark. If Mary Anne were to tell her own story you wouldn't be able to see the full extent of the change that she made, "It was Vietnam, after all, and Mary Anne Bell was an
attractive girl. Too wide in the shoulders, maybe, but she had terrific
legs, a bubbly personality, a happy smile." The way that Rat from a male perspective would describe her she probably wouldn't describe herself as, she wouldn't be able to see the gaze of her own eyes the same way that Rat or Mark would or how she would talk , we would definitely could tell a lot of more about what she was thinking when she as going through these changes from war but not see how much it meant to the people surrounding her. So the way that Rat tells the story of Mary Anne he included details for the reader to see how much she changes down to her stare of her eyes and the shift in tone and appearance and we could be able to see the struggle of Mark Fossie as well from his perspective and this perspective would be better to show that change than Mary Anne herself
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AnonymousApril 22, 2020 at 9:27 AM
The voice of Rat changes the way we see Mary Anne’s story because unlike Mary Anne herself or Mark, Rat is not entirely involved with her, but knows some of her story regardless. When she is introduced by Rat, she, and Rat’s opinion gets described through her features, “The way Rat told it, she came in by helicopter along with the daily resupply shipment out of Chu Lai. A tall, big-boned blonde. At best, Rat said, she was seventeen years old, fresh out of Cleveland Heights Senior High. She had long white legs and blue eyes and a complexion like strawberry ice cream. Very friendly, too.” (Tim O’Brien 89). The quote calls to her physical descriptions using words that bring a form of admiration, giving us details regarding her. It also reveals about how Rat perceives Mary, for most descriptions carry that admiration. If this was Mary Anne to describe herself, it likely would be more focused on descriptors than comparisons to enjoyable things. Through and near the end, Rat describes what he saw along with Mark upon investigating Mary Anne, “ It took a few seconds, Rat said, to appreciate the full change. In part it was her eyes: utterly flat and indifferent. There was no emotion in her stare, no sense of the person behind it. But the grotesque part, he said, was her jewelry. At the girl's throat was a necklace of human tongues.” Rat explains this situation through his own eyes, what he could see was a surreal environment in front of him, the tribal decor and the necklace which was laced with tongues- each of these things which can be assumed that Rat finds disturbing stood out to him. Should Mary Anne have told this story, she would go through a more descriptive process about what she felt preceding this, the process in which it changed and how she transformed from what was in Rat’s eyes- a friendly young woman to a perturbing ritualist with little expression. In Rats eyes the change may have been an unsettling or strange one, but in Mary’s eyes we’d see the transformative view upon it. From what we see at the beginning and the end of Rat’s story on Mary, we can tell that there is a larger change from what we can understand about Mary through the third person. - Aiden Bailey
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 9:44 AM
Eve O’Neill

Tim O’Brian uses the character of Mary Anne to challenge the role of women because of the way that she changed throughout the story. At the beginning, he describes her as a normal girl for the way it was at the time. “This cute blonde—just a kid, just barely out of high school.” This was an example of how she was when she arrived in Vietnam, before she had changed. Later on, she had ended up becoming curious about the war. “What exactly was a trip flare? How did a Claymore work? What was behind those scary green mountains to the west?” these were all questions that Mary Anne had about what was going on. With the use of the character, it changes people’s point of view on Women because of the way that women can get so involved in things, like Mary Anne did.
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 10:03 AM
Nick Chavez
Tim O’Brien talks about Mary Anne throughout the novel. He uses certain words to help illustrate women in the ‘60s Mary Anne was 17 at the time and Tim O’Brien is specific on what he says. In the novel it states “A tall, big-boned blonde. At best, Rat said, she was seventeen years old, fresh out of Cleveland Heights Senior High. She had long white legs and blue eyes and a complexion like strawberry ice cream. Very friendly, too.” (O’Brien 89). This quote shows that Tim thinks Mary is very attractive, and lists everything cute he sees in her. Which is a lot. Another example is where he is thinking about her bed one night. “It was Vietnam, after all, and Mary Anne Bell was an attractive girl. Too wide in the shoulders, maybe, but she had terrific legs, a bubbly personality and a happy smile.(O’Brien 90,91). This shows he thinks she is very attractive because of her appearance, while in bed which means he truly likes her. In other words the story changes, because there is a little suspense to see what his next steps may be in this time. It shows that he is amazed how pretty this new woman is.

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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 10:14 AM
Nathan steneroden
Ms.Stokley
Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong
PEAEAL

The character Mary Anne is used to challenge the traditional stereotype of women in the vietnam war. This is true because once Mary Anne arrived at the camp, she showed a lot of interest in vietnam culture and gave aid to medics bringing in casualties. She eventually stopped wearing makeup and began training herself on how to use a rifle. This challenges the normal stereotype of a woman back then because women weren't allowed to be soldiers and she pushed that fact aside and did it anyway. After the men began to catch on that she is a determined woman that wants to fight, her boyfriend who allowed her to join the men in the first place suggested that she leave. This does not work and eventually Mary Anne began sneaking out at night with nobody knowing where she goes. Eventually she stays out all night and her boyfriend discovers that she is missing. When she comes back to camp the next morning wearing a beret uniform and a rifle, her boyfriend (Fossie) is angry and they talk everything through. She is then shown later groomed and dressed in feminine clothes and Fossie explains that they have become engaged and she has arrangements for a trip back home. I believe she does this because she realizes that if she keeps the traditional stereotype of women rather than trying to convince the men to let her fight, it would be easier to get her way. And this is proven to be true when she disappears again the next morning. And then tells Fossie that she wants that life and doesn't go back home. This shows an example of a woman being challenged in society because she had to make a decision on whether to live the life that she wanted to live, or go back home and continue to be treated as a second class citizen. This is such an important decision because if she chose to live the life she wanted too and that meant being a soldier, she wouldn't be accepted by society and not only risked getting killed on the battlefield but also had the possibility of her freedom being taken away if she returned to america and tried to continue her life.
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 10:27 AM
Having rat kiley tell the story of mary anne changes the readers view because rat is not a tell the full truth kind of character. Rat will only tell what he feels like telling which can mislead the reader. As rat gives his half truth of mary
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AnonymousApril 22, 2020 at 11:17 AM
This choice ain’t story telling gives the reader another layer to see this story through and makes the reader have to read between the lines to find out what’s going on in the background because if the point of view was through Mary Anne there would be less to be left to the reader.
“There was always a dark, far-off look in his eyes, a kind of sadness, as if he were troubled by something sliding beneath the story's surface.” This along with the rest of Rat’s description starts to unravel where the story was going and if it we’re told by Mary these little details would be a lot more explicit. “He was proud, yes, but also amazed. A different person, it seemed, and he wasn't sure what to make of it.”This quote is an strong turning point in the story and possibly the most explicit indication of where the story was going, it told the reader as explicitly as possible from this point of view that her environment was changing her in an way that was unsettling to Mark Fossie. This point of view really starts to unsettle the reader too if they’re paying attention which is a very powerful way to deliver this story.
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AnonymousApril 22, 2020 at 11:41 AM
Jonathan Staton
#2
The writer uses Marry-Ann to give her perception of what a woman’s place in society can be. All this shows us that she was able to adapt to her new environment. Everyone is able to see the change from a girl to a strong independent woman who is braver than most males. This is by showing us that she is able to live in the forest which some men believe a woman probably couldn't even last one day in the forest. We only assume that men only have good survival instincts never the women. Marry-Ann shows us that women can be stronger than men physically and mentally. they can fight wars alongside men. The author uses Marry Ann to give her perception of of what a woman’s place in society by showing us she was able to succeed and adapt her new environment.
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 11:41 AM
Athena Vagge
Period 8

After reading the story ¨Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong” Tim O’ Brien has Rat tell the story of Mary Anne which leaves us with questions of what would have gone differently if she told the story through her own perspective. When we read the story through the words of anyone's but hers we don't really know what went on, or the thoughts that were implied in her head but never spoken out. As Rat tells this story he tells it in ways that sounds realistic but never really knew what went on at every given time. In the story it says, "The way she looked, Mary Anne made you think about those girls back at home, how clean and innocent they all are, how they'll never understand any of this, not in a billion years." This shows us a clear representation on how the thoughts and feelings of Mary Anne herself are sold short but yet told in a completely different way. This changes the way we read the story because we don't really know what went on, we only see the outside view of all of it. There are so many things that should be clarified from this story and made aware of just knowing that all of these things might not be told in the right way. Rat told his story by the things he saw and heard from everybody else and wrote about it in a way that sounded the most realistic and believable but who will ever know what truly happened within these few weeks that she was there. Then the text states, “And then one morning, all alone, Mary Anne walked off into the mountains and did not come back.¨ No one knows why Mary Anne left the way she did, without saying any goodbyes but just heading into the mountains all dressed up and never returning. If this story was in her perspective we would know those answers, we could see what brought her to this decision and why it had to go in the way it did. Without hearing the words of her own story we don't really know what went on on the inside which has a lot to do with a person. You can never judge a person on the way they appear to be along with the thoughts another person has on you. If we were to get this story through her perspective the questions we have unanswered would no longer be that way. Going back to how this changes the way we read this story, and how different it would be if we heard it through her perspective we would see what she saw and the thoughts she had to shape her into the character she is in this story.
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 12:15 PM
sophia
period 7

I feel Tim o brain has Rat tell the story because it leaves you asking a million questions that would have been answered if Mary Anne told the story . When you read the story you never really see how much goes on with Mary because it had been told from rats point of view She would have had something going on with her and going through her mind to have changed the way she did but well never really know because of how the story was told. Rat says "The way she looked, Mary Anne made you think about those girls back at home, how clean and innocent they all are´´ this really shows how everyone looked at her before she changed the men sold her short and made it seem like every girl was like that at there age or in general. If mary had told the story we would have a much better understanding of what went on behind closed doors and why she vanished and why she changed the way she did if Mary had told the story
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 12:38 PM
Marcus Centeno
per. 7

Tim O’Brien uses the character, Mary Anne, to challenge our idea of a woman's place in society in many ways in this story. First, when he shows how sweet and tender she was then it shows how she became a crazy native lady. This shows how women are very similar to men but possibly more different than previously thought due to how much this affected her. Second, he depicted that she was more independent than anyone, even her understood. This is important because, in the beginning, she was acting like she needed main man due to what society had said but after she was there for a while she could have cared less. Honestly, I feel bad for the homie cause apparently she was a cutie but that is how Tim O’Brien questioned a woman’s role in society.
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 12:48 PM
Diego Juarez
Block 7
Question #3:
The way Tim O'Brien uses the character of Mary Anne to challenge the idea of a woman's place in society is by not making her character just being there to comfort and satisfy her partner Mark Fossie or to cook or clean whatever it is, but in fact uses the character of Mary Anne in a more profound way such as the following and this changes our reading of the novel by showing to the people that didn’t already know that there is no roll for woman, like here Mary Anne did what she wanted despite what people told her. “But among the medics there was some envy. It was Vietnam, after all, and Mary Anne Bell was an attractive girl. Too wide in the shoulders, maybe, but she had terrific legs, a bubbly personality, a happy smile. The men genuinely liked her.” (Page 90-91). In the beginning of the story it would talk about Mary Anne like they did in this quote. Just for the men, the story at this point makes it seem as if a woman's place in society is just to comfort and please the men like in the quote here, but in this case Mary Anne with Mark Fossie. Tim O’Brien challenged the use of the character Mary Anne though to show this was not the case at all, that women have a greater role than just this. “Not bad, she'd said. Vietnam made her glow in the dark. She wanted more, she wanted to penetrate deeper into the mystery of herself, and after a time the wanting became needed, which turned then to craving.”(Page 109) Mary Anne was “supposed” to go to Vietnam for Mark Fossie but there was a different outcome. She decided to stay and live her life in any way that she’d like, with whatever it was. Whether that was standing quietly and watching the tracer rounds snap by when under fire or simply vanishing altogether for hours or days. This is how Tim O’Brien challenged the idea of a woman’s place in society using Mary Anne and how it changed our reading of the novel. There is no ideal place for people in society, they can be what they want to be but talking here in this case with women.

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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 12:55 PM
3.
Mary Anne is more free then say women in this time. She is in Vietnam and being completely calm with her surroundings for being in a war zone. This is pretty big deal because you didn't see many women on the front at the time. The story says she wasn't afraid of getting her hands bloody or getting in the dirt. Whereas a large collection of women in the states enjoyed their time not in war and being at home. The reality of Mary Anne is definitely is rare one but does hold to a very strong person

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AnonymousApril 22, 2020 at 12:55 PM
Jake Davis
Period 8

Tim O’Brien uses the character of Mary Anne to challenge the idea of a woman’s place in society. In the 60’s, women were not seen as fighters or soldiers. Mary Anne went to Vietnam to visit her boyfriend in the war and soon, joined the fight, without ever officially joining. She would go out on ambushes at night which caught Mark Fossie, her boyfriend, off guard. “She came trooping in through the wire, tired looking but cheerful as she dropped her gear and gave Mark Fossie a brisk hug.” She was out all night and went off without really telling anyone she was going on ambush. Carrying all the standard military equipment was not something women did. Mark was concerned by it but it didn’t seem to bother anyone else. Her “place” was to become his wife, as they’d gotten engaged the day she came back from her first ambush. He didn’t like the idea of her being anything else. After some time, she pretty much abandoned him to fight harder in the war. “At the girl’s throat was a necklace of human tongues. Elongated and narrow, like pieces of blackened leather, the tongues were threaded along a length of copper wire, one tongue overlapping the next, the tips curled upward as if caught in a final shrill syllable.” In only a few short weeks, Mary Anne went from being an innocent, directionless, young girl who had an awakening at the base. She was transformed into a courageously ruthless fighter. A woman’s place was never to be involved in the heat of battle, but simply to find a husband who possibly filled that role, and have kids to keep the human population on Earth. This changes the reading of the story because it not only shows gruesome imagery of war, but that women can handle it just as well as, or better than men. It also shows the significance of what Mary Anne actually did. She was the only woman on base and was only there because of a joke, she found her true calling and eventually disappeared pursuing it. She was at peace with herself because she found her calling, something women really weren’t allowed to do.
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 12:56 PM
Trentin Martinez
P7 4/22/2020

Tim O'Brien chose to have Rat tell the story because of the unique way he told it. Rat talked about Mary Anne at first like she was this once in a life-time gorgeous young innocent girl you would never expect to see in Vietnam. As Rat went on he put emphasis on the change she went through while there, and also being careful to describe how intrigued she was from the start. We hear him go from, "This cute blonde—just a kid, just barely out of high school .... White culottes and this sexy pink sweater." (pg. 86), to "Though she was young, Rat said, Mary Anne Bell was no timid child. She was curious about things. During her first days in-country she liked to roam around the compound asking questions..." (pg. 91), finally to, "The way she quickly fell into the habits of the bush. No cosmetics, no fingernail filing. She stopped wearing jewelry, cut her hair short and wrapped it in a dark green bandanna. Hygiene became a matter of small consequence." Rat describes it as a full transformation and we quickly learn his views of this. We learn he finds that she was no different than any man, and that people need to drop the sexist views. This irritates the others in the story, but from the writers perspective, and of course the readers, we are supposed to hear what Rat has to say about this. Maybe to add more mystery to what happened when she disappeared, or maybe to hear more about Rats views for future stories. Either way, we were supposed to hear Rats story for a reason, and the reason is for his opinion.
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AnonymousApril 22, 2020 at 1:01 PM
In the story, Tim O'Brien uses the character of Mary Anne to challenge the idea of a woman’s place in society as she was expected to give off pleasure for the other men and expected to be a stereotypical feminine girl, who should do their duty while men go out in war. “She was curious about things. During the first days in-country she liked to roam around the compound asking questions... she had a quick mind”(O’Brien (1). After she arrives at the camp, we see that Mary Anne is curious and a fast learner. This challenges the idea of a woman’s place in society as she wasn’t afraid to try new experiences as a woman. She learned how to repair arteries and shoot morphine, when casualties would come in she wasn’t afraid to get her hands bloody, she cut her hair short and dropped her feminine habits. “Near the end of the third week Fossie began making arrangements to send her home”... “She just stared out at the dark green mountains to the west. The wilderness seemed to draw her in”...“The Next Morning she was gone”(O’Brien 100). This shows that in society, men would make decisions for the women, but in this story Mary Anne isn’t pleased with the decision as she eventually disappears. She proves that her curiosity and her empowerment towards war leads her to attempt to get away from the life that she is expected to live and eventually seeks out for more adventure for the future. Overall, even though the society looks at women as they should dress a certain way and act a certain way, Tim O’Brien challenges that idea as he shows Mary Anne as the girl who looks out for adventure and a girl who gets involved in the nature of war.
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 2:11 PM
The way Tim O’Brien challenges a woman’s place in society is by having her dress in more masculine clothing and show a general lack of interest in grooming that was typically seen with women during that era. She is also depicted as enjoying the acts of war, which was considered crass coming from women at the time.
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 2:55 PM

Savana Corthell
Stokley 10
4/22/20
Block:7

To begin with, the story “Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong” Tim O’Brien uses interesting vocabulary to illustrate expectations of women in the 1960’s. He uses words and expressions that focus mainly on women's appearances which demonstrates mens perspective on women at this point in time. Moving forward, an example of word choice that is shown in this story to express women's expectations in the 60s is “Out on the volleyball court she wore cut-off blue jeans and a black swimsuit top, which the guys appreciated…” (91). This shows how men in this particular story and point in time saw women as an object almost. They cared mostly about what the women were wearing for their likings, as shown in the sentence. They expected women to look “sexy” for them and to wear revealing clothing for their personal benefit . Next, another example of Tim O'Brien's word choice in the story is “Too wide in the shoulders, maybe, but she had terrific legs…” (90). This shows how men primarily focused on physical features which also ties along with the first example which claims how men would focus on what a woman is wearing to be “attractive” more so than what a women had to say and her personality. His word choice changes our understanding of the reading throughout the story because it gives us a better understanding of her growth as a character throughout the story. Overall, the story “Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong” gave expressions that truly showed men's point of view of a female throughout the 60s. Most sentences were regarding a woman's appearance, positive or negative.
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 3:20 PM
In this story Tim O’Brien uses a female for the protagonist in which its the only story of his that has a female as the protagonist. Her name is Mary Anne and she is curious about the natives, and about the war.The idea of the story is of a woman's place in the world. Mary Anne challenges the idea because she represents the innocence the men had at the beginning, the innocence they lost in Vietnam. At the end of her innocence represents what happened to the soldiers and their own innocence. Mary is a metaphor for the men’s changes that has occured to them. Rat Kiley says Mary Anne Bell reminded him of girls. Also Mary Anne shows that women can go to war, when back in the days they weren’t aloud to and they had to be nurses.
All in all Mary Anne Bell had many roles to play and she did them well. It definitely changed our reading in this novel because we get to see her point of view and what she was meant do do for the soldiers. It was inspiring most definitely for women and men too. But I liked having her as the protagonist and see her story and why she was so important.
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UnknownApril 22, 2020 at 3:53 PM
Isabel Oliva
Rat Kiley had changed the point of view and whole perspective of the story because of his eggaretation. The author had chosen him to tell the story because of his overstatements and dramatic way of viewing things. The story had said “he wanted to heat up the truth, to make it burn so hot that you would feel exactly what he felt. For Rat Kiley, I think, facts were formed by sensation, not the other way around”. This had proved that Rat had eggerated his point of view and way to tell the story making a difference of the way Mary Anne would tell it. If this story would have been told by Mary Anne it would have been under exaggerated and told from a more curious perspective and told more factually because of the way she had always asked questions. For example it has said in the story “She was curious about things. During her first days in-country she liked to roam around the compound asking questions” This would prove that Mary Anne would have told the story a different way than Rat would have, it has given off more details and factual opinions rather than egergerated. Thus proving to us the author had chosen our character Rat to tell the story because of the reasons of his ability to overstate the story.
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UnknownApril 24, 2020 at 3:52 PM
Tim O’Brien uses Mary Anne to challenge the idea of a woman's place in society, because most women didn’t do what Mary Anne did. Meaning they didn’t go into the forest with the six Green Berets, and would sometimes disappear into the forest for days, sometimes weaks.
I believe this is how he used Mary Anne to challenge the idea of the role women place in society because men saw women as not understanding anything about the war, they saw them as pretty girls with big pretty eyes.
Mary Anne made them think about the girls back home, how clean and innocent they all are, how they’ll never understand any of this, not in a billion years. Try to tell them about it and they'll just stare at you with those big round candy eyes.
This is how most men that were in the war saw women. They saw all women as being pretty and not knowing or understanding anything.

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AnonymousApril 24, 2020 at 4:55 PM
Shatavia Jones
Tim O'Brien uses the character of Mary Anne To challenge the idea of a women's place in society by having her be a Green Beret even though women aren't supposed to join. They are expected to stay home and give the men what they " needed " when they got home . But Mary Anne thought otherwise; she was going to stand up for women and herself . Women used to be used for entertainment to men , but "Mary Anne wasn't afraid to get her hands bloody. At times, in fact, she seemed fascinated by it." This is saying she wasn't scared to try new things even if that was joining the Green Berets . If she felt like this wasn't safe for her she wouldn't let that stop her . "She was quiet and steady. She didn't back off from the ugly cases." This is explaining how she is not scared of a challenge, but she keeps her head held high . She was quiet and quick . She wanted to get in and get out of all the situations she had been put in . So my point is she is very strong and that is why he chose her to challenge the idea of women's place in society .
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UnknownApril 28, 2020 at 3:58 PM
Tim O’Brien uses Mary Anne to challenge our idea of a woman's place when it came to society in many ways throughout the story. During this a woman was known for cleaning, cooking and to please her man just how any other women would be known to do. Mary Anne showed me that women could do more than what they thought, She was a Green Beret during the time women weren’t known to join. In the text it states “She was Quiet and steady. She didn't back off from the ugly cases” she was a strong woman and it also shows how she was not afraid to do anything no matter what it was. Mary Anne was intrigued with the war. All the actions she took lead her away from what a woman role should be while the men are out . Mary shows how you can go from being innocent and calm to changing into something more powerful and that women can handle war just like men could or even better
-Ivonne Herrera
-Block 7
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UnknownApril 30, 2020 at 12:53 PM
Women serve several important roles in Tim O'Brien's classic of the Vietnam War, 'The Things They Carried', but they primarily function as metaphor for the innocence and youthful grace that the soldiers have to release to survive the horrors of war. When we meet Mary Ann, she can be read as a symbol for Americans back home. Mary Ann is fresh, innocent, and clueless. She arrives in Vietnam in her pretty clothes and is described like the All-American girl next door. Mary Ann arrives, fresh-faced and All-American, and slowly becomes obsessed with Vietnam and the war. By the story's end, Mary Ann's innocence is a distant memory. Mary Ann also functions as a symbol of American arrogance. When she first arrives in Vietnam, she just assumes she is safe and won't be harmed. She acts like a tourist.
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UnknownApril 30, 2020 at 12:56 PM
Lorenzo Rojas
block 7

Women serve several important roles in Tim O'Brien's classic of the Vietnam War, 'The Things They Carried', but they primarily function as metaphor for the innocence and youthful grace that the soldiers have to release to survive the horrors of war. When we meet Mary Ann, she can be read as a symbol for Americans back home. Mary Ann is fresh, innocent, and clueless. She arrives in Vietnam in her pretty clothes and is described like the All-American girl next door. Mary Ann arrives, fresh-faced and All-American, and slowly becomes obsessed with Vietnam and the war. By the story's end, Mary Ann's innocence is a distant memory. Mary Ann also functions as a symbol of American arrogance. When she first arrives in Vietnam, she just assumes she is safe and won't be harmed. She acts like a tourist.
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UnknownApril 30, 2020 at 1:04 PM
Skyler Gottula

Rat being by the couples side during most of their time makes him a reliable source however him being known as a fibber and exaggerator makes him more of a gray area rather than straight truth. When the story goes on rat never smiles or laughs giving us a hint as to what might happen to this pretty girl.
Seeing as she got caught up in an ambush then seemed different could be reason enough.Seeing Mary Anne get dirty with war troubles. Made him emotional and that makes you think everything he said was the truth.
Having a woman experience war and all the anger and violence it brings makes him feel troubled. If someone else had told this story they would have not known as much as rat did seeing it first hand and the amount of detail would have been way less.
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AnonymousMay 1, 2020 at 10:22 AM
Tom O'Brien makes it clear that women play important parts in his stories. Mary Ann Foster only appears in the story " Sweetheart of the song tra bong " but is the most remember able character. She represents the wholesome american girl. The one That the soldiers live for. She represents the pretty innocent american girl. When she first arrives she is clean and puts off as the All- American girl. But then she starts to engage to the war and her innocents start to fade. This is a symbol of the american culture you can start off good but then one little thing or person can get to you and you start to become another person you never knew of. She adapted to her surroundings and became not so innocent
kiara hahn
block 5 .
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UnknownMay 3, 2020 at 2:11 PM
Nicholas Pohle

Tim O'Brien chooses to have Rat tell the story because from his point of view it is told from an outside party than the two main people that where involved and also a friend to both of them. From Rat's point of view we can see Mary Ann's transformation from an innocent girl to a Tarzan-esc attitude. In Rat's telling of the story he described Mary Ann as innocent and so willing to learn about this whole new world her boyfriend is living in but at the end of the story she became a completely different person all together, and to the others it just seemed unnatural and impossible because she was such a nice girl but Rat only focused on the transition that could have happened to anyone. If it was told from Marry Ann's point of view she would have told it as her transition was the best choice she made in her life, not a scary transition as everyone else saw it as. Marry Ann seemed extremely happy with her decision telling Foosie, "Its not that bad." While to her it would seem ok and all right to Foosie it was a heartbreaking sentence, a sign that he was never going to get the women he loved in the first place back. The story would have been thematically drastically different if told from both sides, one as a terrifying change that no one expected and one a story about how someone found what made her drasticly happy.
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AnonymousMay 6, 2020 at 9:15 AM
Savannah Gonzales
The Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong is a romanticized story that focuses on the role of women within the war. Specifically, Tim O’ Brien creates a character that challenges the idea of women being tenders to a man and he portrayed the woman in the story as heroic and adventurous, filled with curiosity which is uncommon within a war story. When a soldier named Mark Fossie takes up the opportunity to sneak his high school sweetheart, Mary Anne to camp in hopes of confiding in her and using her as a token of comfort/ love he’s surprised to find out how things took a turn. Mary Anne becomes fascinated with the war environment and rejects gender normalities that other soldiers, including Fossie had expected of her. She had learned to cook, speak Vietnamese, repair arteries, and shoot morphine. Despite her boyfriend's urgency for her to return home, Mary Anne starts to run away from camp and soon abandons Fossie after the two get engaged. Three weeks later she returned to camp without stopping to see Fossie. He finds her in surprising conditions. “There was no emotion in her stare, no sense of the person behind it. But the grotesque part, he said, was her jewelry. At the girls throat was a necklace of human tongues."( O’Brien). Mary Anne ended up staying in Vietnam, parting separate ways with Fossie. Gender roles expected of women call for them to be responsible, caring, and attentive towards a man, usually don't leave room for personal drive and result in women being painted as one-sided. But, O’ Brien paints Mary Anne as independent. She is persistent and when she wants something, will get it regardless of anyone else’s opinion (when she continued to leave camp and explore the land even though the men encouraged her to go home). Back home, Mary Anne lived a life of conformity, a life that restricted her due to society’s expectations. She shattered Fossie’s hopes and became rather captivated by her surroundings instead of him. Her heart was with the land of Vietnam.
Tim O’ Brien’s choice of using Mary Anne to challenge the idea of a woman’s place in society redirects the focus of war stories which are usually based around the experiences of a man. ‘On the Rainy River’ and ‘The Things They Carried’ revolved around male perspective either before being drafted or during the war while this story allows a woman to be exposed to the war viewing them, just as heroic as men. The concept of Mary Anne being so free-spirited confused the soldiers. “She had crossed to the other side. She was a part of the land. She was wearing her culottes, her pink sweater, and a necklace of human tongues. She was dangerous. She was ready for the kill."(O’ Brien). Soldiers and even Fossie didn't take her as seriously as she really was and viewed her as crazy, savage-like even. Mary Anne defends herself, letting them know that there was nothing more to do and this was the life that she chose. The plot of the story faced the challenge of accepting the breakthrough of a woman's place in society, specifically the soldiers. The Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong shifts readers’ perspective and brings a new point of view regarding the expectations of women.

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UnknownMay 6, 2020 at 4:40 PM
Tim O'Brien uses Marry Anne's character to break the idea of women's place in society very well and very effectively. Marry Anne is presented to be very shallow and surface level. You can hear it in the way that Rat introduces her to the other soldiers. It reflects the view held over her, they comment on her bubbly personality, and her legs, they focus on her pleasant rounded aspects of her, her eyes and her slightly two wide shoulders. They focused only on what they expected from her, barely skimming the surface of her character. When she begin to learn more, and adapt to life on the base, the men begin to register a change, and a new depth. It shocked them, scared them a little even to see the second layer besides the one they expect from her, it was always there, just perhaps not displayed. She fell in love with adventure and heroism, and the way she viewed herself changed as well. She realized that the life she was told to have, the one expected from her, wasn't what she actually wanted. Eventually she pushed away from men and civilization and immersed herself into the culture and surroundings around her. The men labeled her savage and insane but it was more of her realizing her power and strength she has as a woman on her own. She understood the war, she just understood it in a way much different than the men around her did.
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AnonymousMay 8, 2020 at 11:14 AM
Leo Abeyta

Tim O’Brien uses the character of Mary Anne to challenge the idea of a woman’s place in society by telling how she arrived wearing a pink sweater and culottes, but over time she stopped wearing makeup and started changing a lot. In the text it states, “Her body seemed foreign somehow—too stiff in places, too firm where the softness used to be. The bubbliness was gone.” This shows that Mary Anne changed from society’s standard to a remorseless killer like all of the other soldiers in Vietnam. Next is how she became herself in vietnam, “he saw that she was wearing a necklace made of human tongues. Mary Anne told her fiancée he didn’t belong in the tent. She said she felt like herself for the first time in her life.” This challenges almost every idea of a woman’s place in society, as stereotypically around the time of the Vietnam War, Women were supposed to grow up and become housewives and take care of the kids. Tim O’Brien used the character of Mary Anne to challenge the idea of a woman’s place in society by telling how she changed from society’s standard to her true self in Vietnam.
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UnknownMay 19, 2020 at 10:24 AM
Angelina Ornelas
B:7

In the Book “ The things they carried “ by Tim o’brien, he uses a lot of interesting words that illustrate the expectations of women in the 1960’s. The first example of this in the story is “she was good for morale. At times she gave off a kind of come-get-me energy, coy and flirtatious, but apparently it never bothered Mark Fossie.” (O’Brien, 91). This quote shows how she is around the other characters in the story and It also shows how she switches her attitude from begining to the end. Another quote that I saw that showed the expectations of women was “. It was Vietnam, after all, and Mary Anne Bell was an attractive girl. Too wide in the shoulders, maybe, but she had terrific legs, a bubbly personality, a (90) happy smile. The men genuinely liked her. Out on the volleyball court she wore cut-off blue jeans and a black swimsuit top, which the guys appreciated, and in the evenings she liked to dance to music from Rat's portable tape deck”(O’Brien, 90-91). This shows just how much the women in the 60’s were observed. By using the words terrific, bubbly and even wide, it showed just how men always found imperfections but still thought the “ view “ was good and “ pleasing”. He used those words to also give a summery of how she would look / act as if you were there watching her with your own eyes.The author used descriptive words in the story to show all of the feelings, looks and give the energy in the story.
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